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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Feb 10, 2010 23:38:06 GMT 2
February 11th[/color]
LA Clippers
Yao Ming (86) Baron Davis (83) Eric Gordon (77) Al Thornton (75) Mike Miller (73) Sebastian Telfair (70) Ricky Davis (69) Al Harrington (78) Quentin Richardson (69) Shawne Williams (66) Blake Griffin (76) Kelvin Cato (58)
LA Lakers
Kobe Bryant (98) Pau Gasol (87) Lamar Odom (83) Andrew Bynum (77) Rafer Alston (76) Keyon Dooling (72) Luke Walton (69) Zaza Pachulia (69) Mark Madsen (63) Jason Collins (60) Josh Boone (64) Toney Douglas (67) Taylor Griffin (65)
Memphis Grizzlies
Rudy Gay (80) Gilbert Arenas (84) Darrell Arthur (70) Maurice Evans (71) Quinton Ross (68) Andray Blatche (68) Ronnie Price (67) James Singleton (66) Andrea Bargnani (76) Mario West (64) Omri Casspi (67)
Miami Heat
Dwyane Wade (95) Carlos Boozer (85) Richard Jefferson (78) Udonis Haslem (74) Marvin Williams (74) Jamario Moon (73) Daequan Cook (70) James Jones (70) Joel Anthony (65) Brendan Haywood (69) Yakhouba Diawara (62) Chris Quinn (68)
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Post by Los Angeles Lakers on Feb 11, 2010 1:56:58 GMT 2
LA Clippers
Yao Ming 86---------83 Baron Davis 83-----------82 Eric Gordon 77-------------79
LA Lakers
Pau Gasol 87------------89 Andrew Bynum 77--------79 Rafer Alston 76---------73
Memphis Grizzlies
Rudy Gay 80-----------82 Andrea Bargnani 76--------78 Omri Casspi 67---------70
Miami Heat
Daequan Cook 70----------72 Brendan Haywood 69---------74
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 11, 2010 4:08:40 GMT 2
[/color] LA ClippersYao Ming (86) - Should stay right here. Based on past performance, I think he should be higher, but b/c the injury questions, I'd just keep him here. Baron Davis (83) - Has turned it on IRL - 16pt, 8ast, 3reb, 2stl, over half a block per game too. I'd put him at 85. Mike Miller (73) - Should be a few points higher, 76ish? Ricky Davis (69) - Down? Quentin Richardson (69) - Could go up a couple, is solid in a few areas. LA LakersKobe Bryant (98) Pau Gasol (87) Lamar Odom (83) Andrew Bynum (77) - Part of me wants him to go up a little...just doesn't get the consistent time or role in the offense to really show how good he is, IMO. Would definitely not go higher than 80 just b/c he hasn't really had the shot to show what he can do consistently. Zaza Pachulia (69) - Could see him as a 71ish. Memphis GrizzliesRudy Gay (80) - Up a couple points maybe...82-83. Andray Blatche (68) - Should be like 72-73 IMO. Andrea Bargnani (76) - Just maybe, should be 77-78. Omri Casspi (67) - Should be like 73-74. Miami HeatCarlos Boozer (85) - I guess he could go up a couple points. Jamario Moon (73) - Maybe just isn't getting the PT, but not sure I see him as a 73 right now... Joel Anthony (65) - Maybe just up his block rating or something, but could be a 67-68. Brendan Haywood (69) - Is a nice C. I really think he's like a 74-75. he's getting 10 and 10 with 2 blocks...definitely should be around a 75 or even 76.
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Feb 11, 2010 6:51:40 GMT 2
February 11th
LA Clippers
Yao Ming (86) - To be really fair here the rating should stay. Baron Davis (83) - I think Baron has lost his spark, he is nowhere near his efficiency and his knack for scoring/assisting is going down. I guess age catches up with everyone. I only see him as an 81 as of now. Eric Gordon (77) - Good scoring guard even with a small frame. Could go to a 78-79. Al Thornton (75) - I don't really see an improvement in him, so given his potential and all, I'd rather see his rating stay the same. Sebastian Telfair (70) - Don't really pay attention to his game but he could go up to 71-72 Ricky Davis (69) - Oh man I'm speechless Al Harrington (78)- I really think David Lee is a great player, but his current breakout season definitely came at the expense of the other knicks whether you'd like to admit it or not. Harrington has to go down to a 77 right now. Quentin Richardson (69) - Decent for the Heat maybe a 70?
LA Lakers
Pau Gasol (87) - Gasol is great, but don't overvalue him with just the recent couple of games. (I watch every Laker game, you could consider me a fan). He deserves a 88 for sure. Lamar Odom (83) - Odom has been quiet the entire season. I guess that pay-cut has gives him little motivation to do anything. Based on his stats he should only be a 78 at most, but I love his uniqueness in physique and his versatility on the court. He's also doing pretty well as of late with Kobe injured so I guess a fair rating would be 80.
Andrew Bynum (77) - He's a real promising player but rather unstable right now because his talent is stifled with Gasol on the team and often gets into foul trouble that restricts his playing time and numbers. 79 for now. Rafer Alston (76) - Sorry Skip-to-my-loo, only a 72 for you.
Memphis Grizzlies
Rudy Gay (80) - an 82 perhaps? Starting to emerge as a high-flyer Gilbert Arenas (84) - You like guns eh? The thing is Agent Zero shouldn't be playing this bad, but judging from his performance, he's only an 80 right now. Maurice Evans (71) - could go up 1 or 2 Andray Blatche (68) - I like the potential in Blatche, he could use 70-71 Ronnie Price (67) - 69-70 Andrea Bargnani (76) - He's putting up more points this season but still a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE rebounder. maybe a 78 is fitting Mario West (64) - 67? Omri Casspi (67) - I actually like this guy, maybe a 71 for now.
Miami Heat
Dwyane Wade (95) Carlos Boozer (85) - Being a huge Jazz fan, I really feel I need to say something here. Honestly, Boozer is becoming more and more like Amar'e, which is a bad thing. Rather than making his own plays, Boozer has gotten lazy to the point where he relies heavily on passes from teammates (especially Deron) to make his shots. His numbers are good, but it's not entirely him. Stoudamire should really see a decrease this season, he's not worthy of that high rating when all he does is feed off Nash's passing. For Boozer i think staying at 85 would fair for someone who doesn't play defense much. Richard Jefferson (78) - In a slump are we? 76 is more acceptable. Udonis Haslem (74) - 75 or 76? Marvin Williams (74) - 76. I still don't know why the Hawks drafted him. 75 for Marv here. Jamario Moon (73) - Nice fit for the Cavs, could go up to 74 Brendan Haywood (69) - Underrated. 72 for the big guy
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 11, 2010 20:08:27 GMT 2
Detroit - On Baron, you shouldn't just look at "he's not as good as he used to be, so he should go down". Right now, his rating is actually below his actual production, IMO. If he was rated an 88-89, I would say yes, go down, he is not that player. The production he's putting up though, is definitely worth the 83, if not higher, as I've said.
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Post by Sacramento Kings on Feb 11, 2010 21:14:25 GMT 2
[/color] LA ClippersYao Ming (86) - Should stay right here. Based on past performance, I think he should be higher, but b/c the injury questions, I'd just keep him here. Baron Davis (83) - Has turned it on IRL - 16pt, 8ast, 3reb, 2stl, over half a block per game too. I'd put him at 85. Mike Miller (73) - Should be a few points higher, 76ish? Ricky Davis (69) - Down? Quentin Richardson (69) - Could go up a couple, is solid in a few areas. LA LakersKobe Bryant (98) Pau Gasol (87) Lamar Odom (83) Andrew Bynum (77) - Part of me wants him to go up a little...just doesn't get the consistent time or role in the offense to really show how good he is, IMO. Would definitely not go higher than 80 just b/c he hasn't really had the shot to show what he can do consistently. Zaza Pachulia (69) - Could see him as a 71ish. Memphis GrizzliesRudy Gay (80) - Up a couple points maybe...82-83. Andray Blatche (68) - Should be like 72-73 IMO. Andrea Bargnani (76) - Just maybe, should be 77-78. Omri Casspi (67) - Should be like 73-74. Miami HeatCarlos Boozer (85) - I guess he could go up a couple points. Jamario Moon (73) - Maybe just isn't getting the PT, but not sure I see him as a 73 right now... Joel Anthony (65) - Maybe just up his block rating or something, but could be a 67-68. Brendan Haywood (69) - Is a nice C. I really think he's like a 74-75. he's getting 10 and 10 with 2 blocks...definitely should be around a 75 or even 76.[/quote] I agree with your list for the most part (and I'm too lazy to make one myself ), except for: Baron Davis: I agree that he bounced back this year and the stat line you posted is nice but you dont mention that he is shooting just under 40% from the field, 28% from 3 (on 4 attempts a game) and turning the ball over almost 3 times a game. So with all that in mind I think 83 is just fine for him. Eric Gordon: is really underrated and should be a 79 Al Harrington: being a Knicks fan I just hate this stupid chucker and considering that his numbers dipped he could go down a point or two Carlos Boozer: dont see how he should go up. He seems just like the player he always was...
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 12, 2010 2:13:16 GMT 2
I didn't really "neglect" to mention Baron's %'s...he's almost always been a very inefficient shooter. I thought everyone knew that lol. But yea, if he was shooting well (45-46% range) he'd be like an 88-89...the %'s bring him down to the 85 range IMO. The 3 TO's a game is pretty common for guys who handle the ball a lot.
Harrington I'd be ok going down slightly, fine either way.
Boozer don't care about too much...Gordon I'm alright either way also, 79 would be the max for now, but he does have mega talent.
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Feb 12, 2010 6:52:11 GMT 2
Detroit - On Baron, you shouldn't just look at "he's not as good as he used to be, so he should go down". Right now, his rating is actually below his actual production, IMO. If he was rated an 88-89, I would say yes, go down, he is not that player. The production he's putting up though, is definitely worth the 83, if not higher, as I've said. Don't just say that because he's going to be your player. It simple reduces your credibilty when you're trying too hard to get an increase for him. The reality is, he simply is nowhere near guards like Rondo & Ellis who are rated 85 as well. I suggest you say what you have to say and stop always trying to refute others because I too, am entitled to my opinion. Got that Mr. Self-righteous?
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 12, 2010 14:20:22 GMT 2
lmao, you simply do not know me, and you for some reason have a huge dislike of me. Fair enough. But please, from all my other leagues, you should know I am a very unbiased guy. I'm not asking for an increase on Baron because he's going to be my player...I'm just not a jackass like that. I know you don't believe it at all, but if you ever get a chance to ask LAC or WAS from this league, or anyone else who knows me from RR1 (I'm Charlotte) or RR2 (Utah) or Legends (I'm LAC there). I got Baron because I think he's a good player. Doesn't that make sense to you?
I went out and got a player I like. I'm now voicing my opinion like everyone else. Your personal attacks are also unwarranted and very much unwanted. I said something calm, not personal at all (other than mentioning you were the one who said something), and not malicious in any way. Your "Mr. Self-righteous" is entirely out of line.
Also, is this thread not for discussion on ratings? Why are you trying to get rid of simple, honest, clear discussion?
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 12, 2010 14:26:41 GMT 2
BTW, if you would have paid any attention lately, I've done what you call "refute others opinions" for multiple other players that I believe are getting the shaft in ratings by some members. David Lee was one of these, and oh what do you know, HE'S NOT MY PLAYER.
It's funny how you think so little of me, but you are making it more and more clear that you are the jackass. You simply can not handle someone voicing an opinion different from yours, it seems. I speak up in a trade or two and now ratings, and I'm "self-righteous". Your view of the world seems to be very limited to your own opinion.
I'm INVITING discussion here, you are trying to shut it down because you don't want to hear anything other than your own voice.
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Feb 12, 2010 15:56:36 GMT 2
You obviously are trying to start at conflict here. Calling names like jackasses, wow does that make you a "good guy" and hence differentiate yourself from an alleged "Jackass" like me? I did no such thing, shutting down discussions blah blah blah. I SAID: I DON'T SEE HIM AS AN 85, and you shouldn't push too hard for him to be an 85 because he will be your player and people can question your credibilty because of that. Based on your acusations, IF I'm shutting the discussion down, nobody else would be commenting on his ratings after this. But that is obviously isn't happening. So are you a liar now?
And you got your ass fired from some league because you couldn't sign a player due to petty reasons like rewards points? Come on, this league was fine way before you joined. We don't appreciate your presence here if you're gonna start conflicts and start false accusations of people shutting down discussions just because your player doesnt perform like an 85.
You know what? Continue yakking on and on like someone's Nana and I wish you ABSOLUTELY ALL THE BEST IN GETTING YOUR DREAM INCREASE FOR Mr Baron. And thanks for the "Jackass" title. But I guess you've just won that royal crown have you?
PS Last thing, I can't ever shut down a entire discussion with merely a short 5 line paragraph. You absolutely flatter me, don't make me blush=)
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Post by Boston Celtics on Feb 12, 2010 18:53:25 GMT 2
Dude, I'll just say one last time. I am not starting conflict, I'm trying to have a discussion.
2nd, your need to bring up D5 is entirely retarded. The admin there never really gave a reason to "fire" me, and I was literally quitting anyway. It was the failure to communicate league rules by the admin of that league that made me want to leave. I don't do well with incompetent administration.
And also, I don't have some dream on Baron. Again, expressing an opinion, just having a discussion. I'll post stats if needed, I'm just looking for players to be rated correctly. For example, Yahoo has Baron's average game as the 30th best in the NBA.
6th best PG in assists. 15th best in points. 16th in Rebounds. 3rd (tied) in steals. 1st (tied) in blocks. 12th in FTM per game 12th in FT%...out of the 11 guys ahead of him in FTM per game, Baron is the 3rd best behind only Billups and CP3. I can't find rank in TO's, but looking at the top 20-25 PG's or so, he seems to be basically average. Chris Paul has 2.5 TO's a game. Deron has 3.2 Billups 2.4 Nash 3.8 Rondo 2.9....Baron is at 2.9 as well.
Yes, his FG% is down, but it's not like he's the only one. Baron shooting 39.8%. Billups is at 42.3%. Kidd is at 42.8%. Brooks is at 42.6%. Arenas at 41.1%. Jennings 37.6%. Stuckey 40.2%. Devin Harris 38.8%. Bibby at 40.6%. Westbrook 40.5%. Jameer 43.2%. Hinrich 38%. Conley 42.9%. Lowry 40.6%. Duhon 34.8%. Fisher 38.6%...
Ok so I'm just saying, that's a shit ton of guys. Considering he goes to the line (gets fouled, thus making his chance of MAKING a shot less) the 6th most out of those guys (Stuckey, Billups, Harris, Arenas, and Westbrook)...it's not that hard to see why his percent is a little down.
Also, his 3pt% isn't great (28.1%), but he's not alone there either. Wade is at 29.7%. Rondo at 25.5%. Tyreke Evans 26.1%. Stuckey is at 14.9 btw. Anyway, 28% is not THAT bad. I think the average is around the low 30's for the league.
So listen, I'm just putting out my opinion that he's at the very least, still an 83, possibly should go up. His negatives - Bad FG% and a little below avg 3pt%. His positives - elite assists. Above average points and boards. Elite Steals. Elite (league leading for PG) blocks. Well above average FTM and FT%. I think his positives outweigh his negatives to the point of an 83-85 rating. You seem to want to ignore the positives and punish him relentlessly for his FG% and 3pt%...which the 3pt % is actually not THAT bad.
I'm perfectly fine with whatever the league decides, just voicing my opinion and backing it up.
And P.S. - The "jackass" nominer was simply the kindest thing I could think of to say about you at that time. :-)
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Feb 13, 2010 0:53:41 GMT 2
February 11th LA ClippersYao Ming (86) - To be really fair here the rating should stay. Baron Davis (83) - I think Baron has lost his spark, he is nowhere near his efficiency and his knack for scoring/assisting is going down. I guess age catches up with everyone. I only see him as an 81 as of now. Eric Gordon (77) - Good scoring guard even with a small frame. Could go to a 78-79. Al Thornton (75) - I don't really see an improvement in him, so given his potential and all, I'd rather see his rating stay the same. Sebastian Telfair (70) - Don't really pay attention to his game but he could go up to 71-72 Ricky Davis (69) - Oh man I'm speechless Al Harrington (78)- I really think David Lee is a great player, but his current breakout season definitely came at the expense of the other knicks whether you'd like to admit it or not. Harrington has to go down to a 77 right now. Quentin Richardson (69) - Decent for the Heat maybe a 70? LA LakersPau Gasol (87) - Gasol is great, but don't overvalue him with just the recent couple of games. (I watch every Laker game, you could consider me a fan). He deserves a 88 for sure. Lamar Odom (83) - Odom has been quiet the entire season. I guess that pay-cut has gives him little motivation to do anything. Based on his stats he should only be a 78 at most, but I love his uniqueness in physique and his versatility on the court. He's also doing pretty well as of late with Kobe injured so I guess a fair rating would be 80. Andrew Bynum (77) - He's a real promising player but rather unstable right now because his talent is stifled with Gasol on the team and often gets into foul trouble that restricts his playing time and numbers. 79 for now. Rafer Alston (76) - Sorry Skip-to-my-loo, only a 72 for you. Memphis GrizzliesRudy Gay (80) - an 82 perhaps? Starting to emerge as a high-flyer Gilbert Arenas (84) - You like guns eh? The thing is Agent Zero shouldn't be playing this bad, but judging from his performance, he's only an 80 right now. Maurice Evans (71) - could go up 1 or 2 Andray Blatche (68) - I like the potential in Blatche, he could use 70-71 Ronnie Price (67) - 69-70 Andrea Bargnani (76) - He's putting up more points this season but still a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE rebounder. maybe a 78 is fitting Mario West (64) - 67? Omri Casspi (67) - I actually like this guy, maybe a 71 for now. Miami HeatDwyane Wade (95) Carlos Boozer (85) - Being a huge Jazz fan, I really feel I need to say something here. Honestly, Boozer is becoming more and more like Amar'e, which is a bad thing. Rather than making his own plays, Boozer has gotten lazy to the point where he relies heavily on passes from teammates (especially Deron) to make his shots. His numbers are good, but it's not entirely him. Stoudamire should really see a decrease this season, he's not worthy of that high rating when all he does is feed off Nash's passing. For Boozer i think staying at 85 would fair for someone who doesn't play defense much. Richard Jefferson (78) - In a slump are we? 76 is more acceptable. Udonis Haslem (74) - 75 or 76? Marvin Williams (74) - 76. I still don't know why the Hawks drafted him. 75 for Marv here. Jamario Moon (73) - Nice fit for the Cavs, could go up to 74 Brendan Haywood (69) - Underrated. 72 for the big guy I'll base mine on yours: LA ClippersAgreed with Ming, Gordon, Thornton and Richardson. As for Baron, I think he is fine where he is. As for Telfair, the other Davis and Harrington, I think they should stay put. Telfair hasn't gotten much burn this season, Davis is actually shooting much better compared to last season and Harrington has done good job off the bench. Also to add, Mike Miller should be around 75. LA LakersCompletely agreed on everything. Memphis GrizzliesRudy Gay is exactly what he has been for the past 3 season, but you could say he's slightly underrated at 80. 81-82 Gilbert started to finally get going (24.4 points, 8.8 assists, 4.4 rebounds and 2 steals per game during the last 5 games) until the gun incident forced him to skip the remaining of the season again. About 80 sounds reasonable. Agreed on Price, Blatche and Evans. Bargnani has been better than ever this year and has been very slowly improving, but still improving his defense and rebounding. I would put him in the 78-79 range. Casspi has been one of the biggest surprises this year and definitely should get a raise. 71-73 Miami HeatPretty much agreed on Boozer, Williams, RJ and Haslem. I honestly am quite disappointed in Jamario, I was hoping he would do better in Cleveland, but when you're backing up LeBron James the most of the time, you won't get that much minutes. Should remain the same. Haywood should get even more raise than you suggested, he's definitely a starter quality player. No wonder so many teams are interested in purchasing him. 74-76
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Feb 20, 2010 21:54:17 GMT 2
Summary:
LA Clippers
Eric Gordon (77) - (79) Mike Miller (73) - (74) Al Harrington (78) - (77) Quentin Richardson (69) - (71)
LA Lakers
Pau Gasol (87) - (88) Andrew Bynum (77) - (79) Rafer Alston (76) - (73) Lamar Odom (83) - (80) Zaza Pachulia (69) - (71)
Memphis Grizzlies
Rudy Gay (80) - (82) Gilber Arenas (84) - (82) Maurice Evans (71) - (73) Andray Blatche (68) - (72) Ronnie Price (67) - (70) Andrea Bargnani (76) - (78) Mario West (64) - (67) Omri Casspi (67) - (72)
Miami Heat
Richard Jefferson (78) - (76) Udonis Haslem (74) - (76) Marvin Williams (74) - (75) Joel Anthony (65) - (67) Brendan Haywood (69) - (75)
Any objections?
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